League Of Augsburg - Fighting Talk

"In 1681, by Royal Warrant, these three troops were combined, with the addition of three further troops, into what would be named the Royal Regiment of Scots Dragoons.[4] Lieutenant-General Thomas Dalziel would be the regiment's first colonel. In its original configuration, the Scots Greys were configured as a true dragoon regiment. Although mounted, as cavalry regiment were, their armament was closer to those carried by infantry units. Troopers of the Scots Greys were authorized, during the late 17th century, to carry matchlock muskets with bayonets, while their sergeants and corporals carried halberds and pistols. Only the officers were authorized swords, though the lieutenants were to be armed with a partisan.[5] Interestingly, the original uniform called for the troopers to wear grey coats, but there is no record that the regimental mounts had to be of any particular colour.[6]"

I would like to model the Greys in the period 1689 - 91, but loyal to the true King!

The above quotation is taken from Wikipedia, although it does appear to be fully researched...

Does anyone know whether the grey coats were dark or light grey, and any ideas on facing colours?

Now I have to draw up a guidon for them!

On a separate note, what headgear should grenadiers (if any) be wearing for the Royal Scots (Pontius Pilate's bodyguard) of this period?

According to the commission registers Thomas Dalyell was appointed colonel of what would become the 2nd North British Dragoons on 25 Nov 1681, being superseded by the Earl of Dunmore on 06 Nov 1685 himself superseded after the Williamite seizure of power in 31 Dec 1688 by Viscount Teviot.

The regiment existed since ca.1678 but was only brought onto the English establishment several years later to make up deficiencies. Clifford quotes a warrant for "Stone Grey" cloth for uniform coats....

Thanks Rebel, much appreciated. Earl of Dunmore in 'stone grey' it will be as I'll be modelling them as remaining loyal to James VII.

Still none the wiser re facings though...

In the warrant for their marching orders dated 01 Nov 1688, the unit is referred to as Royal Regt of Dragoons (the other units in the column being Troop of Life Guards, Royal Regt of Horse, Regt of Foot Guards, Buchan's Regt of Foot and Wauchope's Regt of Foot).

I would therefore go with Dark Blue Facings as this is technically a "royal" regiment

Am about to leaf through the Scots' registers to see if anything else turns up.

- Mike.

Nothing more to add except Charles Murray, Viscount (later Earl) of Dunmore was Dalyell's Lt Col

Good point, I'd got it into my head for some reason that the 'Royal' designation occurred later.

OK, grey coats, blue facings and I've created my guidon for them...

Will be ordering them (along with my Royal Scots) from Barry once he returns from his travels.

It gets better, have just been perusing a package that my good friend Robert Hall sent me for some work I'm doing on Ramillies, and his reconstruction is a blue swallow tailed guildon with a crowned thistle surrounded by the phrase "Nemo me Impune Lacessit". In the upper canton (by the staff) is a white saltire on blue field....

Ray.

Thanks Ray, I had seen your models on a different thread and admired them. Very nice indeed.

I'll be using mine as Jacobite (assuming they never defected to the Usurper) in 1689 - 91 period.

You seem to be correct with the fur hats as one source (Charles Grant and Michael Youens, Royal Scots Greys, Osprey Publishing, Ltd., 1972) gives them wearing "fur hats and broad-brimmed hats" at the inspection in London in 1693 by William III, when they were also all mounted on greys.

Cheers,

hello James,

Just to add a few bits. The future Royal Scots Greys originate from 1678 when three companies (troops) of dragoons were raised. (It is of interest this coincided with the formation of several troops of horse, a regiment of foot (future Royal Scots Fusiliers) and some companies for policing the Highlands as well.)Three more companies were raised in 1681 and the six were regimented 25 November 1681 as the Royal Regiment of Scots Dragoons. (The troops of horse were regimented in early 1682 as the Royal Regiment of Horse.)

regards,
Wienand

James,

I would tend to the hat rather than the fur trimmed bonnet. It doesn't look as nice but was far more common, if only due to the cost of replacing the bonnet.

Oddly enough the unit was formed - if I read the warrant correctly - not only from drafts taken from the existing dragoon companies but also with men drawn from the Scots Foot Guards......


- Mike.

Ray.

I think I'm going to use a bit of historical license and have my unit painted in pre-1685 colours:

grey coats; white facings; blue bonnets!

Will be a marked difference on the gaming table from the massed ranks of red-coated horse of other players...