Jacobite?? Or not!

[flick40]

I'm sure Arnold van Keppel was along for the ride as well

[obriendavid]

you mean his legal wife. Well Mary apparently went along with anything she was told. It seems that stupidity was spread throughout the line but only the men got the intelligence and deviousness (most of which had been cornered by Charles II).
- Mike.

Thanks Mike, I thought that was probably the case but just wondered if it had ever been discussed anywhere.
Cheers
Dave

[Motorway]

you mean his legal wife. Well Mary apparently went along with anything she was told. It seems that stupidity was spread throughout the line but only the men got the intelligence and deviousness (most of which had been cornered by Charles II).
- Mike.

Thanks Mike, I thought that was probably the case but just wondered if it had ever been discussed anywhere.
Cheers
Dave

In 1988, when the Glorious Revolution was commemorated, (especially in the US and the Netherlands), a great number of books were published, amongst them a reprint of the book by US authors H. and B,. van der Zee, "William and Mary" (2nd edtion Penguin Books), and the - then new- "Revolution in the Family" (Penguin books London, 1988) , who are rather positive about Mary.

[obriendavid]

In 1988, when the Glorious Revolution was commemorated, (especially in the US and the Netherlands), a great number of books were published, amongst them a reprint of the book by US authors H. and B,. van der Zee, "William and Mary" (2nd edtion Penguin Books), and the - then new- "Revolution in the Family" (Penguin books London, 1988) , who are rather positive about Mary.

Can you give us any idea of what part if any, the books say she played in the revolution?
Cheers
Dave

[Motorway]

In 1988, when the Glorious Revolution was commemorated, (especially in the US and the Netherlands), a great number of books were published, amongst them a reprint of the book by US authors H. and B,. van der Zee, "William and Mary" (2nd edtion Penguin Books), and the - then new- "Revolution in the Family" (Penguin books London, 1988) , who are rather positive about Mary.

Can you give us any idea of what part if any, the books say she played in the revolution?
Cheers
Dave

A detailed answer will take some time as I don't have all the books. I found an interesting link though, om a dutch historian's website, (http://www.historici.nl/Onderzoek/Proje ... iaStuartII) that she supported William's claim to the throne, was a devote protestant and remained so even when her father embraced catholicism and put some pressure on her to follow him.

I quote and translate from the above link:


"Initially Mary took no part in politics. She also felt, as she stated in her memoirs, that women should take no part at all in matters of state. But this was just a pose. She was convinced of the fact that the fight against catholicism and her father was pre-destined by God and that William III was sent by God as His instrument and defender of the protestant faith. But also it became inevitable that she got involved in politcs.: beween 1690 and 1694 she took her role as queen, when William was abroad or at war. After a cautious start she proved to be resolute and had insight in the schemes of her Ministers and the conflict between the Tories and the Whigs. Mary also understood the use of propaganda and public appearences. When James published a pamphlet in 1692 using a staunch approach, she did not hesitate to publish a thrashing comment in England"

[Ben Waterhouse]

<Basil Fawlty>Pshaw - Women, eh!</Basil Fawlty>

[Giorgio]

I return to the topic question: From Italy 100% Jacobite! don't forget that Bonnie Prince Charlie was born in Rome!
Giorgio

[Belg]

I return to the topic question: From Italy 100% Jacobite! don't forget that Bonnie Prince Charlie was born in Rome!
Giorgio

Ciao, Giorgio,
vien quasi da pensare che sia per questo che abbia perso la guerra!
O no?

Sergio

[Cameronian]

I return to the topic question: From Italy 100% Jacobite! don't forget that Bonnie Prince Charlie was born in Rome!
Giorgio

He also died there a pathetic drunk, good riddance. A man who brought nothing but death and disaster to those he pretended to rule.

[markdo]

As the Duke of Wellington said, being born in a stable does not make one a horse.

To suggest Prince Charlie was Italian is a low blow.He was born in Rome because his father was in exile- remember?

He may have ended up a bitter drunk but had life gone otherwise he would have been the king who did not converse with trees at Windsor.

Mark

[Belg]

He was born in Rome:
it comes almost to think that's why he had lost their war!
Perhaps, if he had been born in Turin, instead, it may be had a chance.

[Giorgio]

Mark, you may want to read again my post: I haven't said anybody was italian, I said he was born in Italy, that gives an istinctive simpathy for his cause (plus my simpathy for Irish people). I put also a to underline I was joking, anyway up for the Jacobites and if you prefer I will say I like them for Charles II,perhaps an old cousin of his was born close to Turin...
Ciao
Giorgio

[Adam Hayes]

He was born in Rome:
it comes almost to think that's why he had lost their war!
Perhaps, if he had been born in Turin, instead, it may be had a chance.

Shows some commitment anyway, leaving sunny Italy to travel to a rainy, grey bunch of islands where the ungrateful peasants don't even appreciate your worth!
(My sympathies are with the Jacobites - it's probably the underdog thing. As a constitutional monarchist I appreciate the chance that was taken to limit the Crowns authority.)

[markdo]

Hello Georgio,

I'd not been on for a few days and was reacting to several remarks posted about the prince's birthplace as well as his life. So, I posted at the bottom of the pile. Birthplace is a sore point for me as I was born in "exile" too.


Regarding the original Q,temperamentally I always supported the Jacobites;however I had a very unsettling time once with a new boss which made me develop a higher degree of understanding for those who deposed James II- he failed to convince his workforce of his honesty and his commitment to the traditional values of the "company". They simply didn't know what was coming next and lost their faith and their nerve.
Mark

[barr7430]

Cameronian, I think your balanced and objective comments are somewhat underscored by your Forum handle I would have recommended a good 'Looney Doctor' if you'd shown approval of the Stuart Pretender......
The war is over though, to use yet another old Scots saying...

We're aw Jock Tamson's bairns.... and I like that approach much better.

Interesting thread though as most of just can't keep it in