The French Regiments in Ireland Post Ireland

[Captain of Dragoons]

Gents,

Does anybody know or have seen any mention of the French Regiments that served in Ireland after their return to France? Did they serve in Flanders or move to Italy, were they retained after the GA/LOA and took part in the WSS or even into the reign of Louis XV?

The only one that I have seen info on is Regiment de Zurlauben. It appears if Zurlauben was wiped out at Blenheim standing its ground against Marlborough's great cavalry charge that broke the French centre. Does not appear to been re-rasied.

Cheers
Edward

[Arthur]

Yes, their whereabouts after Ireland are fairly well documented :

* Zurlauben (Walloon) : served in Flanders 1692-1697 where it fought at Steinkirk and Neerwinden. In Italy 1701, then Germany 1703-1704. Destroyed at Bleinheim where its colonel was killed and the regiment was disbanded as a result.

* Famechon (Walloon) : Sent to Italy after its return from Ireland, then Catalonia. Started the WSS in the Low Countries then sent to the Rhine 1703-1704 where it fought at 1st and 2nd Höchstädt (Bleinheim). Spent the rest of the war in Flanders, fighting at Oudenarde in 1708.

* Forez : Sent to Italy upon its return to France in October 1690. Spent the Nine Years war in the Army of Piémont. In Italy again during the WSS from 1701 until 1706, then participated in the defense of Toulon in 1707. Subsequently assigned to the protection of the Alps 1708-1712.

* Tournaisis : Italy for most of the Nine Years War, then Italy again from 1701 until 1706. Siege of Toulon 1707, assigned to Dauphiné 1708, then Flanders 1709-1712, where the regiment fought at Malplaquet and Denain.

* La Marche : Assigned to the Alps and Nice in 1691, then sent to Flanders 1692-1693, where the regiment fought at Neerwinden. In Germany in 1703, fighting at Breisach, Landau and Speyerbach. Back in the Alps in 1704/05, then sent to Italy where it fought at Turin in 1706. Siege of Toulon in 1707, then Dauphiné 1708-1710 and finally Catalonia and Spain 1711-1714.

* Mérode : Assigned to the Alps and Nice 1691 and later to the army of the Piémont. Was in the Cévennes in 1703-1704, then Nice in 1705. To Catalonia in 1706, then Roussilon in 1707.

[j1mwallace]

Very interesting Arthur!
you must have a phoneline back to Louis XIV

[Captain of Dragoons]

Hello Arthur,

I take it most of these regiments were disbanded after the WSS?

Edward

[Graf Bretlach]

Captain I posted info on the regiments previously (not sure where) but this is it again.

I thought I would try and identify the French regiments, I found the the following in Susane (sometimes has errors)

La Marche 1047 V8-229 - Boyne
Tournaisis 1044 V8-225 - no Irlande mentioned
Forez 1042 V8-222 - Boyne, Limerick
Faméchon (Walloon) 1025 V8-208 Boyne, Limerck
Mérode (Walloon) 1067 V8-250 Boyne not mentioned
Zurlauben (Walloon) 1031 V8-214 Boyne, destroyed at Blenheim
first number is the reference in Susane, the second is the volume and page number.

The colonels and the life of the regiment
La Marche (1684-1763) 1684 Armand-Charles de Gontaut, baron de Biron
Tournaisis (1684-1775) 1684 marquis de Brouilly
Forez (1684-1775) 1684 Jean-Noël de Barbezières, comte de Chémerault
Faméchon (1677-1762) 1677 Ignace de Belvalet, comte de Famechon
Mérode (1688-1698) 1688 de Gand-Vilain, comte de Mérode
Zurlauben (1684-1704) 1685 Béat-Jacques de la Tour-Châtillon, comte de Zurlauben

Not sure at this point if any of these commanded their regiments at the Boyne or were just the usual titular appointments. Zurlauban was mortally wounded at Blenheim.

Note Susane calls Zurlauben a Walloon regiment, but the quote below calls it German.

This might be interesting for this period, my transcription from the Biographie universelle.

- Béat-Jacques II, fils du précédent, se distingua tellement dans le régiment de Zurlauben , que Louis XIV lui donna, en 1687 , la seigneurie du Val-de-Ville (Haute-Alsace), laquelle fut érigée en baronnie. Il leva, en 1687, le régiment allemand de Zurlauben , à la tête duquel il servit en Catalogne. Nomme, en 1690 , brigadier des armées du roi, il passa en Irlande, et donna des preuves de la plus éclatante bravoure à la bataille de Limmerick, où son régiment fut mis en pièces. Il commandait, en 1692 , une brigade à la bataille de Steinkerque, où il fut blessé : et la même année le roi éleva au titre de comté la baronnie de Ville. Le comte de Zurlauben se distingua tellement à la bataille de Nerwinde, que la gloire de cette journée fut principalement due à la valeur de sa brigade. Maréchal de camp, en 1696 , il servit aux sièges de Mons, de Namur, et étant avec le comte de Jessé, commandant de la place de Mantoue , il en fit lever le blocus, que l'ennemi formait depuis un an. Il a écrit de sa main des Mémoires sur la défense de cette place. Nommé, en 1701, lieutenant-général, il fit à la bataille de Hochstet (1704) des efforts héroïques. Quoiqu'il eut reçu sept blessures profondes, s'étant mis à la tête de la gendarmerie, il avait trois fois repoussé l'ennemi ; mais n'étant point secondé il fut obligé de se retirer. Le roi, informé de sa conduite, lui fit écrire par le ministre de la guerre :

« Sa Majesté m'a commandé de vous dire que vous serez content de la manière dont elle a intention de vous dédommager; songez à guérir promptement et à venir recevoir la récompense de vos services. »

La lettre est du 20 sept. ; et, avant qu'elle pût arriver à son adresse, Zurlauben mourut à Ulm en Souabe, des suites de ses blessures, ne laissant que des filles , dont l'une épousa, en 1711, Henri-Louis de Choiseul.

[Graf Bretlach]

Shame he didn't get his reward from Louis, not sure if his daughters got it?

[Arthur]

Captain I posted info on the regiments previously (not sure where) but this is it again.

I thought I would try and identify the French regiments, I found the the following in Susane (sometimes has errors)

La Marche 1047 V8-229 - Boyne
Tournaisis 1044 V8-225 - no Irlande mentioned
Forez 1042 V8-222 - Boyne, Limerick
Faméchon (Walloon) 1025 V8-208 Boyne, Limerck
Mérode (Walloon) 1067 V8-250 Boyne not mentioned
Zurlauben (Walloon) 1031 V8-214 Boyne, destroyed at Blenheim
first number is the reference in Susane, the second is the volume and page number.

The colonels and the life of the regiment
La Marche (1684-1763) 1684 Armand-Charles de Gontaut, baron de Biron
Tournaisis (1684-1775) 1684 marquis de Brouilly
Forez (1684-1775) 1684 Jean-Noël de Barbezières, comte de Chémerault
Faméchon (1677-1762) 1677 Ignace de Belvalet, comte de Famechon
Mérode (1688-1698) 1688 de Gand-Vilain, comte de Mérode
Zurlauben (1684-1704) 1685 Béat-Jacques de la Tour-Châtillon, comte de Zurlauben

Not sure at this point if any of these commanded their regiments at the Boyne or were just the usual titular appointments. Zurlauban was mortally wounded at Blenheim.

Note Susane calls Zurlauben a Walloon regiment, but the quote below calls it German.

This might be interesting for this period, my transcription from the Biographie universelle.

- Béat-Jacques II, fils du précédent, se distingua tellement dans le régiment de Zurlauben , que Louis XIV lui donna, en 1687 , la seigneurie du Val-de-Ville (Haute-Alsace), laquelle fut érigée en baronnie. Il leva, en 1687, le régiment allemand de Zurlauben , à la tête duquel il servit en Catalogne. Nomme, en 1690 , brigadier des armées du roi, il passa en Irlande, et donna des preuves de la plus éclatante bravoure à la bataille de Limmerick, où son régiment fut mis en pièces. Il commandait, en 1692 , une brigade à la bataille de Steinkerque, où il fut blessé : et la même année le roi éleva au titre de comté la baronnie de Ville. Le comte de Zurlauben se distingua tellement à la bataille de Nerwinde, que la gloire de cette journée fut principalement due à la valeur de sa brigade. Maréchal de camp, en 1696 , il servit aux sièges de Mons, de Namur, et étant avec le comte de Jessé, commandant de la place de Mantoue , il en fit lever le blocus, que l'ennemi formait depuis un an. Il a écrit de sa main des Mémoires sur la défense de cette place. Nommé, en 1701, lieutenant-général, il fit à la bataille de Hochstet (1704) des efforts héroïques. Quoiqu'il eut reçu sept blessures profondes, s'étant mis à la tête de la gendarmerie, il avait trois fois repoussé l'ennemi ; mais n'étant point secondé il fut obligé de se retirer. Le roi, informé de sa conduite, lui fit écrire par le ministre de la guerre :

« Sa Majesté m'a commandé de vous dire que vous serez content de la manière dont elle a intention de vous dédommager; songez à guérir promptement et à venir recevoir la récompense de vos services. »

La lettre est du 20 sept. ; et, avant qu'elle pût arriver à son adresse, Zurlauben mourut à Ulm en Souabe, des suites de ses blessures, ne laissant que des filles , dont l'une épousa, en 1711, Henri-Louis de Choiseul.

It's actually a little trickier than that. Zurlauben's regiment was originally a Walloon unit raised in 1684 and known as Lallemant. Lallemant was itself the descendant of the old Vierzet Walloon regiment which had been disbanded in the late 1670's. So it was definitely a Walloon unit when it came under Zurlauben's command. To complicate matters even further, Béat Jacques de la Tour-Chatillon, count of Zurlauben, wasn't German but Swiss. The Zurlaubens had been a prominent family in the Swiss Zug canton since the late Middle Ages, and Zurlauben's father had served as an officer in the Gardes Suisses.

As a result, I suppose the regiment could be variously labelled as Walloon because of its historical tradition, Swiss because of the nationality of its colonel (which would admittedly be stretching things somewhat since the men were not Swiss soldiers contractually supplied by the Swiss cantons) or German because many of the recruits later came from German-speaking areas (including Alsace, where Zurlauben was given a baronage). Incidentally, the wikipedia page which says that Zurlauben raised his German regiment in 1687 is obviously wrong.

[Arthur]

Hello Arthur,

I take it most of these regiments were disbanded after the WSS?

Edward

Only one of them if you except Zurlauben, actually : Mérode became the Tournon regiment shortly upon its return from Ireland and was commanded by a Sieur de Pasquier de Tournon. The regiment was disbanded in 1698 after the peace of Ryswick, then re-raised in 1702 by Pasquier de Tournon. It became Payssac in 1709 and was disbanded for good in 1714 at the close of the WSS.

On the other hand, and as Graf Betlach wrote, La Marche, Forez Tournaisis and Famechon endured well into the second half of the C18th, though some of them were incorporated into other units in the 1760's.

[Arthur]

Very interesting Arthur!
you must have a phoneline back to Louis XIV

The line's a bit busy sometimes, Lou's been grumpy lately and those damn carrier pigeons are nowhere near as reliable as they used to be...

Well, that and a few books on the subject, which help a bit as well

Actually, the stuff above was pretty easy : Susane covers most of the basics for the regimental histories and Hall has the digest version on his CD if you want something friendlier for English native speakers. .

[Graf Bretlach]

Thank you for the extra bits Arthur, yes I was aware of the Zurlauban history, I only posted one, they owned the weirdest looking chateau/castle also on wikipedia, the article does reflect the biographie saying he raised a german regiment 1687, which doesn't quite match Susane, unless some confusion has come in, which is possible, I think even Susane struggled at times, also when does a regiment finish and a new one start? with the colonel or with one company?, not always clear cut.

what uniform/standard does Hall give for Zurlauban?

[Arthur]

I have no idea where the 1687 date comes from as it doesn't match any referenced and reliable account - and we know for certain that Zurlauben acquired the Walloon Lallemant regiment in 1685. It is always possible that the regiment's Walloon character was fading away by 1687 and Zurlauben was replenishing the ranks with German-speaking recruits, a move which may have been mistaken for the raising of a new German regiment. But frankly that is pure conjecture on my part and I have no evidence to back that supposition. In any case, the transmission of regiments was becoming a well-regulated business by the mid-1680's so the inauguration date for a colonel was simply the moment he acquired his unit and signed the legal papers.

The uniform for Zurlauben is well documented and recouped from several period sources, particularly the 1692 Etat général des troupes de France and its 1702 counterpart (Etat des troupes de France en l'année 1702) : all sources agree on blue coats lined red. The blue was probably a medium to dark shade and the red a hue of crimson (there's a reference to amarante - i.e wine red - facings for 1687).

[Graf Bretlach]

Thank you Arthur, are these early etats available online? I think the earliest I have is 1720.

would the blue/red coat suggest German or did some of the Walloons have blue too.

[Captain of Dragoons]

Great Discussion and information Gents

Cheers
Edward

[toggy]

Any info on the uniform of Famechon's, did Walloon regts. have a specific coat colour?

Bob

[Arthur]

Thank you Arthur, are these early etats available online? I think the earliest I have is 1720.

would the blue/red coat suggest German or did some of the Walloons have blue too.

I don't know of any other Walloon regiment in blue coats, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. Before the turn of the 18th century, foreign regiments do not seem to have been assigned a coat colour that was specific to their nationality (the Irish being the only notable exception, but their case was a particular one). For instance, the Swiss wore just about every colour in the rainbow before they settled for red in the early C18th : most of them had blue coats faced red before the WSS, but Greder and Salis had red coats faced green, Courten was in yellow faced red and Reynold in red faced yellow, while Schellemberg had green faced red. The Germans mostly wore blue, but Sürbeck/La Marck had yellow coats faced red in the 1690's. So I wouldn't over-interpret Zurlauben's switch to blue coats in 1685, all the more so as the Walloons do not appear to have had a distinctive coat colour themselves. Which leads me to...