Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

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trojan58au
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Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by trojan58au » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:28 pm

Hi

I'm hoping someone with greater knowledge that I can make sure I'm on the right track with the composition of various regiments.

I'm trying to work out which units would be armed with flintlocks, matchlocks, pike only or standard ECW style Pike/musket mix.

I'm thinking:
* (pikes) means pikes on a 4th stand as a marker - as per the standard rules
Fusiliers - Flintlock (No Pike)
Older regiments (inc French and Guard in Jacobite army) - Matchlock with Guards with Flintlock (Pikes)
Dutch Scots Brigade - Fusiliers (no Pike)
Newly raised (English and scots) - Matchlock (Pikes)
Newly raised (Irish - Williams Army) - ECW style mix Matchlock and Pike
Newly raised (Jacobite) - mix ECW style with a mix of units with Pike only

Does the above mix sound reasonably

I assume the Danish troops are all Flintlock by 1688/89 and Dutch troops are all Flintlock (pikes)

Any assistance or comments are appreciated

Thanks
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by Dfogleman2 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:01 pm

Others will no doubt chime in, but the Danes had flintlocks and no pikes.
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by trojan58au » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:12 am

Well 137 views and no one has any idea. :shock: :D
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by Captain of Dragoons » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:51 am

Hello trojan58au

From what I have read/research for the Glorious Revolution and follow on campaigns in Ireland and Scotland this is what I think:

Established English regiments matchlocks with pike but transitioning to flintlock. May be based on seniority with the exception of the Royal Fusiliers who were raised to guard the artillery /artillery train, flintlocks being safer.

Danes, flintlocks no pike, they where very progressive.

English - Scots brigade in Dutch service I would still have them with pike.

Newly raised Williamite and Jacobite regiments with matchlocks and perhaps a greater ratio of pikes.

For the French believe they where slower in transitioning from the matchlock to the flintlock, but still with pike.

For the native Dutch Regiments I would guess the same as the standing English/Scots/Irish establishments, transitioning from matchlock to flintlock and still with pike.

Edward.
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by trojan58au » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:13 am

Thank you your reply is greatly appreciated and very helpful
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by barr7430 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:08 pm

The Enniskillen regiments (Irish in William's service) were noted as carrying no pikes at Dundalk in October 1689 although they were carrying them at Newton in July 1689.

Matchlocks were still widely used. Flintlocks would have been restricted certainly in Ireland and in Scotland.

Pikes would have been more or less standard issue for all troops except the aforementioned Danes. It is highly probable that the Huguenots had pikes at some point.
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by trojan58au » Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:37 am

Hi

Thanks again. I was thinking perhaps the Dutch Scots brigade had no pikes. It's only an assumption on my part but based on how easliy they folded at Killiecrankie. It may also explain why the newly raised units (Levan's I think) resisted longer than the left (just a thought)


Thanks all for you assistance
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by Clibinarium » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:30 am

Hmm, I doubt it; Montrose's highlanders were able to overrun pike armed covenanters 50 years before without hindrance. Though obviously a look at the weapons inventories if available would be definitive.
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by barr7430 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:57 pm

It is possible that the Scots-Dutch Brigade carried no pikes at Killiecrankie but I have never heard that mooted before. A decision not to march north with pikes may seem logical but the terrain in Ireland was also difficult and pikes were carried by many regiments. Do you have some source that suggests no pikes were carried?


thanks
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by trojan58au » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:36 pm

Hi

No just a gut feeling.

I've read several accounts of the battle and all make mention of the failure to fit the plug bayonets in time as the root cause of the loss.

No mention was ever made of pikes and I would have thought pikemen in the unit would have offered some resistence. For regiments that were supposed to be well trained and experienced (Scots Brigade) they collapsed vey quickly.

Having been to the battle site I can appreciate that the terrain was probably not in the Williamites favour and that that would have done them, as the defenders, no favours.

As I said, no real evidence, just a thought.
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by Clibinarium » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:45 pm

Another thing to bear in mind is that the number of pikemen in this period was much reduced as compared to the ECW, so that a battalion has too few to engage in Push of Pike. One can imagine highlanders, who presumably are at least as smart as horses, not charging full pelt into levelled pikes, either going around them or under them like Spanish rodeleros, but hat's speculation. Perhaps there's some accounts of what they did in the ECW; not a period I know in detail.
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by Graf Bretlach » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:21 pm

I have lost the references but William III set the ratio in 1693 for Regiments going to or in Flanders at 14 pike and 46 muskets for each company, except the grenadiers.
In 1696 one English Regiment had 160 pikes and 580 muskets as establishment strength

At Killiecrankie the lone English regiment formed pikes in the centre, muskets either side and grenadiers on right flank.

unfortunately pikes/matchlock/flintlock/socket bayonet/plug bayonet rarely get mentioned as such.
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Re: Composition of the English/Scots and Jacobite Regiments

Post by quindia » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:00 am

Clibinarium wrote:One can imagine highlanders, who presumably are at least as smart as horses...
:D
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